Lex Fridman podcast: PM Modi opens up on Gujarat riots, ties with China, Pakistan

Prime Minister Narendra Modi has stressed on strengthening ties with China despite past tensions, emphasising on dialogue over discord and cooperation over conflict.

Speaking on the Lex Fridman Podcast, PM Modi said, “Look, the relationship between India and China isn't something new. Both nations have ancient cultures and civilizations. Even in the modern world, they play a significant role. If you look at historical records, for centuries, India and China have learned from each other. Together, they have always contributed to the global good in some way.”

Normalcy restored at India-China border

Addressing the long-standing border disputes, PM Modi acknowledged the tensions that arose in 2020 following clashes along the Line of Actual Control (LAC).

Also read: China shouldn't be an issue in Modi-Trump ties: Beijing

“It is true that there have been ongoing border disputes between us. And in 2020, the incidents along the border created significant tensions between our countries. However, after my recent meeting with President Xi, we have seen a return to normalcy at the border,” he said.

“We are now working to restore conditions to how they were before 2020. Slowly but surely, trust, enthusiasm, and energy will return. But of course, it will take some time, since there's been a five-year gap. Our cooperation isn't just beneficial, it's also essential for global stability and prosperity. And since the 21st century is Asia's century, we want India and China to compete in a healthy and natural way. Competition is not a bad thing, but it should never turn into conflict,” he added.

Slams Pakistan for hostility, betrayal

Talking about Pakistan, PM Modi said that every attempt to foster peace with the neighbouring country was met with hostility and betrayal and hoped that wisdom would prevail on the leadership in Islamabad to improve bilateral ties.

He recalled that he had specially invited his Pakistan counterpart Nawaz Sharif for his swearing-in ceremony in 2014 with the hope that the two countries could turn a new leaf.

“Yet, every noble attempt at fostering peace was met with hostility and betrayal. We sincerely hope that wisdom prevails upon them and they choose the path of peace,” the prime minister said in his over three-hour interaction.

Modi said he believed that even the people of Pakistan long for peace because they also must be tired of living in strife, unrest and relentless terror where even innocent children are killed and countless lives are destroyed.

Bid to create false narrative

Prime Minister Modi said the discourse around the 2002 post-Godhra riots in Gujarat was an attempt to create a false narrative and his political opponents in power at the Centre wanted him to be punished but the courts cleared his name.

Also read: India calls Pakistan epicentre of global terrorism, rejects 'baseless charges'

Modi said the perception that the 2002 riots were the biggest riots ever in Gujarat was an attempt to push misinformation. He dubbed Godhra incident as a tragedy of unimaginable magnitude.

“It was a tragedy of unimaginable magnitude, people were burned alive. You can imagine, against the backdrop of incidents like the Kandahar hijacking, the attack on Parliament, or even 9/11, and then to have so many people killed and burned alive, you can imagine how tense and volatile the situation was. Of course, this was tragic for everyone. Everyone prefers peace. The perception that these were the biggest riots ever is actually misinformation.”

“Before 2002, Gujarat witnessed over 250 significant riots. The riots in 1969 lasted nearly six months. So there was a long history, long before I was in the picture. But that one tragic incident in 2002 became a sparking point, leading some people towards violence. Yet, the judiciary thoroughly investigated the matter. At that time, our political opponents were in power, and naturally they wanted all allegations against us to stick. Despite their relentless efforts, the judiciary analysed the situation meticulously twice and ultimately found us completely innocent. Those who were truly responsible have faced justice from the courts,” he added.

‘Focused on productivity than power’

PM Narendra Modi said that he doesn’t consider himself “powerful” and only considers himself as prime servant.

“Well, I don’t think the word powerful quite reflects the journey of my life. I can never claim to be powerful. For all I am is a humble servant, I even identify myself as not the Prime Minister, but the prime servant, and service is the guiding principle of my work ethic,” he said.

“As far as power is concerned, it is something I have never bothered about. I entered politics not to play power games, but to serve. Rather than seeking power, I stay committed to doing and getting work done. I am more focused on productivity than power. I have always dedicated myself to serving the people. I have always devoted myself to bringing about a positive change in their lives,” he added.

Also read: Zakia Jafri: Gritty Gujarat riot survivor who fought for justice till her last breath

‘Governance rooted in people not polls’

When Fridman asked the prime minister about the success mantra behind his election winning streak in the world’s largest democracy and what it takes to win elections, he said, “My governance flows beyond the ebb and flow of elections. My governance is rooted in the people, not the polls. It is committed to the well-being of my citizens and the greater good of the nation.”

“I’ve been actively involved in politics for years. Before stepping into active politics, my focus was primarily on organisational work. This also included managing elections and strategizing campaigns, so that was where I dedicated my time. For 24 years, the people of Gujarat and India have placed their trust in me to lead with unwavering dedication and a deep sense of duty. I try to fulfill the sacred duty entrusted to me by the people I revere as divine. I remain committed to honouring their trust, ensuring it never falters. And they see me for what I truly am,” he said.

‘Share bond of mutual trust with Trump’

Prime Minister Modi said he shares a bond of mutual trust with US President Donald Trump and they connect well because they believe in putting their respective national interests above everything else.

He hailed Trump as a man of courage, who took his own decisions, was unwaveringly dedicated to the United States and the same spirit was on display when he was shot at by a gunman on the election campaign trail last year.

Also read: Trump is a 'friend': Goyal sees no hurdles in Indo-US partnership

“Even after being shot, he remained unwaveringly dedicated to America. His life was for his nation. His reflection showed his America First spirit, just as I believe in nation first. I stand for India first and that’s why we connect so well. These are the things that truly resonate. And I believe that across the world politicians are covered so much by the media that people mostly perceive each other through its lens. People rarely get the chance to truly meet or personally know one another and perhaps third-party intervention is the real cause of tensions,” he added.