Rathna Kumar and Deeraj: Syncing individual art with Lokesh's vision for Leo

Deeraj directed Jil Jung Juk in 2016 and has written for some films and the TV series The Village, starring Arya. He also conceptualised and directed the music video Unakku Thaan for Chithha, starring Siddharth and directed by Arun Kumar. Rathna made Meyaadha Maan and Aadai before teaming up with Lokesh twice before – in Master and Vikram. His Gulu Gulu was released in 2022.

In this conversation filled with some spoilers, the writer duo speak to The Federal about being directors yet writing for others, the creative joy of entering someone else’s world, the unlearning and learning, and the advantage of many perspectives. Excerpts from the interview:

You both began with the germ of an idea from A History of Violence, and fleshed it out as a writing team. What was the brief like?

Deeraj: When Lokesh narrated the story to us, he’d already written in the fact that the reveal will happen much later. The idea was that we keep things taut so that there’s only a tiny doubt in the audience’s mind if Leo and Parthiban are one and the same. And, we ensured that we allowed the audience to piece together the puzzle.

Rathna: I remember Lokesh telling me that when he read the graphic novel, there were many many pages to go after the reveal and that he did not find that exciting enough. He did not want to do a big transformation scene, like we are now used to. In Vikram, almost till the interval, you don’t know Kamal sir’s character is alive. And, yet, you are invested. That was something Lokesh made with his heart. And he wanted something similar.

We did keep enough clues that people might possibly find during the first watch, or the second. For instance, Parthiban (the character played by Vijay) is always guarded, looking out for something. He responds only the second time. After watching the movie, it’s nice to recreate it in your mind.

The film was also a homage to quite a few seminal movies of the 1980s and '90s…And, one of them is Mouna Ragam...

Rathna: Yes, the name of one of the important characters is a throwback to Moondram Pirai as well.

There’s a reference to Mouna Ragam and the caterpillar. And, getting Parthiban to say it is interesting because he’s someone who is making every effort to not be the typical grand hero. He is vulnerable.

There were other similarities that were in plain sight, yet not really identifiable. For instance, the dancing...

Rathna: Yes, Parthiban loves dancing. He’s dancing on his own, with his kid. He’s most free when dancing. And, in the other story, you know Leo’s someone who loves dancing and films. There’s a Jeans reference too.

How did you both work on the vulnerability, considering it’s a huge film with a big star?

Rathna: Lokesh was sure that we are not going to glorify anything, including Vijay sir removing his shirt. The same for the flashback portions. We did not want anything extra special. Vijay sir is well-groomed and more agile in that portion, in keeping with the age of the character and that’s it.

The middle-aged Parthiban is more of a family man, doing things with his family, for his family. There’s a lot of compassion in him, and that’s what you see even in the seminal hyena fight scene.

Deeraj: The same with the shirtless scenes. It’s not a one-off mass moment, but something he does through the film – when he’s working, changing the antennae, changing his shirt in the bakery and in the scene where he asks Joshy to injure him. Lokesh wanted us to normalise that.

Both of you are directors yourself. How was it to come on board someone else’s project as dialogue writers? Did it involve a lot of unlearning and learning?

Deeraj: I think what we liked was that we had a free hand and were able to bring in multiple perceptions to the table. The story was already running inside Lokesh’s head, and we had to flesh it out and put it down on paper, including the massy scenes and the tender ones.

And, I was very conscious about the fact that Lokesh has a different approach than what I have, and that I have to write for his vision. For me, he’s an example of being honest to your craft and yet creating something for the mass market. It was wonderful to see how a scene transformed and grew in stature from script to the screen. Writing for this was an example on how to approach a big film better.

Rathna: A film’s success depends on this 'small' word called 'transfer' from the script to screen. We saw how he sometimes changed what we wrote, how he edited the writing, or tied up two ends sacrificing the middle, and it ultimately made sense. For the character of Napoleon, we had a backstory. Of a grand-daughter who died waiting for her grandfather to return from duty. And, seeing Parthiban’s daughter reminds him of that grandchild. But, we saw that Lokesh retained the beginning and the end of the scene, and it still made sense. After that 10-day shoot and the edit, we knew what he expected.

Deeraj: We actually revisited the remaining scenes to keep in tune with Lokesh’s vision.

It’s not very often that credit is given to a co-writer. Rathna, this is your third with Lokesh after Master and Vikram. This collaboration is new for you, Deeraj…

Rathna: This credit has helped with recognition in a big way. I got called by some big directors, including Sudha Kongara ma'am, Gautam Vasudev Menon sir and Gnanavel sir. But, I’d been working on my own film and did not take up anything. They called me in as a fellow director, so I could offer an opinion. Some see me as a script doctor, who can work on specific parts.

Both of us are aware we are not writing an original story here and are helping develop something that’s already there. Next, I'm going to direct a story written by Lokesh.

Deeraj: We are not someone like say, Syam Pushkaran, who is creating an original story.

We are providing additional support. After 2016, I’ve not directed a feature film. I’ve been writing for others, but this is the first big-ticket commercial film I’ve written for, and that too for Lokesh, whose sensibilities I respect as a writer/director.

When I write for others, I get a lot of variety to dabble in, genres to explore. And, because I am also a director, I tend to visualise what I write, and that helps me grow as a director. I would write differently if I wrote for myself. When I go out of my comfort zone, I grow as a creator.

Lokesh is known for his action scenes. How did you both visualise them?

Rathna: We know he loves action. No one can do it better than him now. That said, we know he will amp it up some more even if we think we are being very violent with our words. If I wrote a line: “He broke his hand”, he'll definitely rewrite it as, “He broke his hand and his little finger.”

Deeraj: You must know his love for Tarantino. Possibly, he sees this on-screen violence as cathartic.

Rathna: You should hear his stories from school and college. All filled with action. (laughs).

How democratic is this process of co-writing?

Rathna: Lokesh always appreciates a good line. When Trisha says the line: "I held my uyir (life) in my hand and ran", referring to her daughter, Lokesh turned back to me in the theatre and said: “It’s working, no?” That’s gracious of him. He acknowledges everyone’s work. He can also be stubborn, but that is to get work done.

Deeraj: He is open to the point of view and perspectives of others. I think that’s one reason for his success. He has his own sensibility, but is willing to take inputs.

The women in Lokesh’s film suffer from underwriting. Agent Tina of Vikram was a departure. How did you both work on Trisha’s character, considering the hit on-screen pair was reuniting after a long gap?

Rathna: If you notice, Trisha’s character has more agency, and she’s in a higher post than Parthiban. And, she can do all she has to, to protect her family. I saw it this way: She knows, but he does not know she knows. In many ways, this film seemed like an extension of Ghilli, in terms of the on-screen chemistry.

Deeraj: Yes, I saw it that way too. Imagine Velu and Dhanalakshmi all grown up and in a different universe. They might as well be Parthiban and Sathya.

Rathna: We even wondered if Vijay sir can wear the jersey from Ghilli in one scene, but we opted to not break the wall. The homages were in the form of fleeting scenes. The rest was left for the audience to decipher. And, I think they have.